Two Women Alongside Rudolf Steiner

Erziehungskunst | How did you come up with the idea for this book project?

Gunna Wendt | I like to write dual biographies in which two people – preferably women – meet. My most recent book was Erika und Therese, about the working and loving relationship between Erika Mann and Therese Giehse. Before that, Clara und Paula, about the two artists Clara Rilke-Westhoff and Paula Modersohn-Becker. Together with my editor, I then looked for two new protagonists and that's how I ended up with Ita und Marie.

I don't have an anthroposophical background, but I do have an interest in anthroposophy and first came across Ita Wegman, a doctor whose view of illness, health and above all healing made a great impression on me. At first I only knew Marie Steiner as Steiner's wife – but she soon stepped out of this supporting role.

EK | Which sources did you use for the research?

GW | Marie Steiner published a lot and a lot has been written about her – just like Ita Wegman. Companions have spoken out. And I was allowed to look at original documents in the Ita Wegman archive in Arlesheim. There I received a lot of support from Gunhild Pörksen, a great expert on Ita Wegman's work.

EK | What appeals to you about biographical work?

GW | I always enjoy delving deeper and deeper into a life story as the research progresses. Sometimes I have suspicions that are confirmed. That's great. It's kind of detective work. I started with childhood: Marie Steiner, who grew up in Russia, Ita Wegman, who spent her childhood and youth in Indonesia. Both had early encounters with a particular form of spirituality that influenced them.  

EK | Was that also the reason why they both were so open to the spirituality of anthroposophy?

GW | Absolutely. For them, spirituality was something ordinary and therefore self-evident: a special view of life, the lived present, in which knowledge and feeling were inextricably linked. This is just as clear in Marie's relationship to the performing arts as it is in Ita's understanding of medicine.

EK | What is so special about these two women?

GW | The two of them are women who have invented themselves, like most of the women I have written about. They have done something with their lives that was not expected or intended: Ita as a doctor, Marie as an actress, reciter, director. It took a lot of courage and concentration on the thing that is most important to you: your work. It was what connected Ita Wegman, Marie Steiner and Rudolf Steiner – in a relationship that was defined by the dynamics of distance and closeness. 

EK | Is there any evidence that Rudolf Steiner had a physical relationship with both women?

GW | I have no information on this and it would be very speculative to make a statement on this.

EK | How do you assess the relationship between the two personalities who were so important to Rudolf Steiner, how can we imagine it?

GW | That is not so easy to answer. If you like, one of the intentions of my book is to explore these relationships in their multidimensionality, uniqueness and contradictoriness.

EK | Have you had any exceptional reactions to the book, are there any examples?

GW | I have received a lot of positive feedback, both at my readings and events such as the one-day seminar at the Rudolf-Steiner-Haus in Stuttgart and in reviews and comments from readers. There was particular praise for the fact that I treated both women equally and didn't play one off against the other, as has usually happened in the past.

EK | Why were Ita and Marie played off against each other?

GW | At all times, self-confident women have been played off against each other and competition has been promoted, fueled and constructed. When they ventured into territory that was actually reserved for men, these mechanisms were used to constrain rebellious women.

EK | I myself find it fascinating to read about the effect Rudolf Steiner had on his contemporaries and would be extremely happy if there were films or sound recordings so that I could imagine what effect he had when he spoke. What do you think was so captivating and special about Rudolf Steiner for Ita and Marie? As you describe in your book, they obviously worked themselves almost to death for him in order to support him in his projects.

GW | Steiner's conviction and unconditional commitment to his cause made a strong impression on and inspired both women. He was not primarily interested in fame and success, but in passing on his insights and experiences, allowing the world to share in his knowledge, so to speak. It is thanks to Marie Steiner's organizational talent and drive that we can read his lectures today. It was she who took care of the minutes and the publication. However, she not only put her diverse skills at Rudolf Steiner's service, but also independently created new forms of theater such as the Mystery Plays or eurythmy performances. Ita Wegman's own way was to see the whole world as therapeutic with a «courage of healing» that was admired by Rudolf Steiner and all those who worked with her.